Manitoba Geocaching Association


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Birds Hill Park
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onecrazycanadian



Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Nov 27, 2010 11:04 pm    Post subject: Birds Hill Park Reply with quote

Hi all,

I have just received a bunch of Archive requests from the people at Birds Hill Park. I have already archived a few in the park at their request. It is looking like they are asking for the rest of them to be archived.

As this is coming from the park authorities I have no choice but to do it immediately. However I am wondering what is going on there. They have not given me any official reason and I haven't been able to get any info from them.

As I have not had word of problems with any other park it makes me think that this is an anomaly. If someone has any insight into the thoughts of the people at Birds Hill Park can they let me know.

Thanks
OCC
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dani_carriere



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 504
Location: Winnipeg

PostPosted: Nov 27, 2010 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is coming from a park interpretor, not the park manager. I have been in communication with the governing department with the province. Please do not do this immediately as their offices are currently closed. We are still in negotiations. Please communicate with me offline on this matter.
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TurdleEggs



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 687
Location: Ste Genevieve

PostPosted: Nov 28, 2010 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What makes BHP seem even more bipolar, is that almost in the same breath, they were asking that attributes be corrected, cache containers be changed and trailhead waypoints added. It seemed like they were taking an active and informed interest in ensuring geocaching in BHP continued while still managing the parks resources. MB Parks even promotes caching on their website. There were some archives requested early on that (it my mind) seemed justified. This last wave of archive requests is inexplicable.
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TurdleEggs



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 687
Location: Ste Genevieve

PostPosted: Nov 28, 2010 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two of my hides were victims of the latest cacheocide. These were my (slightly) “tongue in cheek” responses:

LKST-1a Cookout
LKST-10 Ring (Corral)

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Georgia



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 150
Location: East St. Paul

PostPosted: Nov 29, 2010 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cachicide... hmmmm... well it looks like Ivanna will be exhumed:
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=ff65cf2f-a332-4ce3-aa01-7c434dd26f13

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TurdleEggs



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 687
Location: Ste Genevieve

PostPosted: Nov 29, 2010 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, they’ve asked me to move some caches too. Don’t think I’ll be going down that road. Not on the off chance they approve the new coordinates within two months based on their (cough cough) “geocaching policy”. Also, who’s to say they might not have another change of heart later, and create reason number 23 to remove the cache from BHP. Unless something changes drastically with BHP’s attitude, I’ll be archiving all of mine in the park – assuming they don’t do it for me first.
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MissionMode



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Nov 30, 2010 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure the snowmobiles that swamped themselves this weekend did much less damage than all of the traffic to our caches. That must be it. That's why they don't care about their activity but would rather shut ours down. After all they are less instrusive to wildlife and horses, and are far more careful to not damage any fauna they are near.

oh wait...
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glacier_ice



Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 759

PostPosted: Nov 30, 2010 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the recent events of having a large number of Geocaches in BHP affected by archival requests or requests to move it appears to have caused emotions to run high.

We have been in the process of working with MB Parks and BHP in updating the policies around cache placement, application procedures and communication issues.

Although the Parks policy has been in place for a year, the most recent meeting of November 1st was the first step in working together to provide more clarity to that policy. It is still very early in the process of working on these details and not all of the wrinkles have been sorted out yet.

Currently, any decision involving a Geocache in BHP is made by the Parks manager and BHP staff is asked to follow up on that decision. Information posted by the 'birdshill' user in a cache log is brief with more detailed information in a follow up email to the cache owner.

At this point, to avoid a large volume of emails directed at BHP staff, if you have any questions regarding a decision made about a geocache, please contact me directly and I will address it on your behalf.

glacier.ice@shaw.ca

GI

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TurdleEggs



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 687
Location: Ste Genevieve

PostPosted: Dec 01, 2010 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GI: I very much appreciate that you’re championing the cause for geocaching in Manitoba Parks and volunteering your time to negotiate with parks staff on refinement of the geocaching policy. However, I don’t agree with the MBGA being put in the position of representing Manitoba Parks on specific issues between and cache owner and the land owner. Manitoba Parks created this policy, and it’s up to them have bidirectional communication with cache hiders on specific issues they’ve identified. They are the park managers, and communicating with the public on specific issues in the park is part of what they do. This policy was their initiative and they are paid to do this and they are passing their work off to you in order to hide behind anonymity and avoid confrontation.

I appreciate the offer, but if I have a specific issue raised in an e-mail I’ve received from Manitoba Conservation, I expect to be able to respond and engage in dialog and not have a third party represent me. This is in no way a slight against you or your abilities - again I appreciate the effort and time you’ve put in on behalf of Manitoba geocachers. Please do not be offended by my comments. You have elected to discuss this in a public forum (good idea) so I am responding in kind.

**********

The second part of this is, I am but an emotional male, but I’m done crying now. I have this day submitted applications for several on-trail hides to accommodate Manitoba Conservation’s request to move some of my caches in Birds Hill Park. I also have an outstanding e-mail requesting clarification on whether caches were removed or I’m expected to remove them after I received conflicting requests from Manitoba Conservation. In a second e-mail, I’ve asked for a map or coordinates in proximity to the Promise cache after a request from Manitoba Conservation to move it to a “park designated trail”. Based on geocache application rejections, archives and requests to move caches, clearly the maps provided do not tell the whole story. Rather than me guessing where I think Manitoba Parks might approve a cache, I’d prefer to save a step a have them tell me (us) locations they will approve.

My previous history in communicating with Birds Hill Park staff has not been good. I would go so far as to say that Manitoba Conservation has treated me rudely. I waited 42 days for a response to geocaching applications I submitted. I attempted to engage the unknown reviewer in dialog but received no response. When a MBGA board member contacted the park directly, I received my rejection in less than a minute based on criteria they had not identified. Clearly they had not actually reviewed the cache locations and just denied them to end the “discussion”.

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Georgia



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 150
Location: East St. Paul

PostPosted: Dec 01, 2010 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, too, appreciate any and all time put in by volunteers.
However, I have received logs and emails directly to me from "birdshill" so I will respond directly to that person/organization.
I believe that in sending out to each and every cache owner with a problem cache in the park, they must surely have anticipated dealing with individual response. As Turdle has stated, this is their job and they are paid to do it.
I am not trying to diminish the generous offer made by Glacier_Ice - I appreciate it, but will act on my own behalf.

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TurdleEggs



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 687
Location: Ste Genevieve

PostPosted: Dec 01, 2010 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Georgia’s comments made me realize I was too vague and painted all Birds Hill Park and Manitoba Conservation employees and contractors with the same brush. Of course, the vast majority are good people looking after the parks that I enjoy using so much.

I have received e-mail and logs from “birdshill” that I have not received any reply to (so far). They even go so far as to hide their e-mail address (making it inconvenient to reply). This is the ID the archive and cache move requests came from.

“Birds Hill Interps” asked me (quite nicely) to change attributes in a log. I replied when it was done but did not receive an acknowledgement.

“mgmtplan@gov.mb.ca” is where the geocaching applications go. This ID did not reply to my geocaching application e-mails.

“Ashleigh” acknowledged (quite nicely and promptly) receipt of my geocache applications and receipt of my subsequent e-mails inquiring as to my application status. I have Ashleigh’s e-mail address but won’t publish it here. She does not review the applications and tells me they are sent to the District Park Supervisor.

“Clinton” e-mailed my geocache application rejections after a call was made to another park person. I have Clinton’s e-mail address but won’t publish it here.

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glacier_ice



Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 759

PostPosted: Dec 03, 2010 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New update.

After I talked with the Park manager last evening, the 'birdshill' Geocaching profile was updated. This is one of two accounts they have utilized and will now be the only account through which communication will occur.

He indicated that if Geocachers wish to contact the Birds Hill office, a phone call is much preferred to email and welcomes the dialogue.

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=4ad28127-ca2b-427d-b136-e0eff1c78ef8

Quote:
This account is managed by Manitoba Conservation - Birds Hill District Office.

If you have any questions about this account or requests made through this account, please contact the Birds Hill District Office. You may also send a message through the Geocaching website.

Manitoba Conservation
Birds Hill District
Box 183, RR1
Dugald, MB R0E 0K0
.

Ph. (204) 654-6730
Fax. (204) 654-6740.

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Cache and Cary



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Winnipeg

PostPosted: Dec 12, 2010 11:37 pm    Post subject: Birds Hill Park Reply with quote

Is there a list of all the caches that have been shutdown by the Parkies?

Could somebody make one and add Santa's Purse GCQFDZ.javascript:emoticon('Evil or Very Mad')
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crabbything



Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Ste. Anne

PostPosted: Dec 13, 2010 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never went to Bird's Hill until I found out about geocaching.

Will Geoventure be somewhere else next year if they go through with archiving everything?
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glacier_ice



Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 759

PostPosted: Dec 14, 2010 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The review of Geocaches in BHP was completed by BHP staff in November. Any caches that were to be archived have already been archived. No other Geocaches are set to be archived.

There were some other geocaches that BHP requested to be relocated by May 31st, 2011 and those cache owners have already been contacted.

The decision on Geoventure location has not been made and will be made by the about to be newly formed Geoventure Committee.

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