Manitoba Geocaching Association

Kabuthunk · Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 257 Location: Winnipeg

Just a random venting more than anything else. Not even sure how I'd get this message out to new geocachers wanting to hide geocaches... or even established people who simply don't use the feature.

Attributes for caches.

I can't even count the number of caches I've done where there's simply been zero attributes listed for it at all. It's not like it's a difficult matter either (and I can actually talk, since I've got a 3/4 made cache page, just waiting for the container to be finished). It takes like... 20 seconds tops, and that's if you have to think about it.

Of the main ones in there that irritate me when it's either missing or wrong is the "Winter friendly" I mean... anyone who's lived in Manitoba for even a single year should know that this is a very important attribute to add. If it's winter accessible... it should be selected as an attribute. Otherwise, most others should have it listed as specifically not winter accessible. I can see there being a kinda "in-between", where you would leave it off... kinda 'depends on the year and how much melts over the period of several days' type of thing... but otherwise, generally anything that can be covered in snow (and that's like... most of them) should have the non-winter-accessible attribute.

The main reason for the vent is a recent cache I went to today. Listed as winter-accessible... it's inside a hollow at the base of a tree. Not even a heavily-wooded area where the tree-cover will keep the snow away. Even after our single snowfall, I still had to dig snow to get it. Like c'mon... what the heck? Even if this was a misclick, you're kinda supposed to check over everything in the cache you post before sending it for review.

But other than that specific one... it's annoying when someone has NO attributes on a cache. I mean c'mon... there must be SOMETHING you can add to it. Less than an hour? Kid-friendly? Bike-accessible? Something, c'mon!

*gasp* *pant*

Don't mind me... it's been a really rough month. The 'little things' are starting to wear me down.

</rant>

junglehair · Joined: 05 Apr 2005 Posts: 372 Location: Winnipeg

Ok, I'm guilty of this one. I've been caching since before the attributes were even a feature on the site, and I have to admit that I don't usually think to use them. I will try to update my caches to add the appropriate attributes.

I would say that winter accessible means more than just being 2 or 3 feet off the ground. If the cache is hidden in the "obvious spot" when you get to a location, then I would consider that winter-friendly even if it means they have to dig through a couple feet of snow to get to it. The same might be true of the cache you found today if there are not that many trees in the area.

Kabuthunk · Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 257 Location: Winnipeg

junglehair wrote:

Ok, I'm guilty of this one. I've been caching since before the attributes were even a feature on the site, and I have to admit that I don't usually think to use them. I will try to update my caches to add the appropriate attributes.

I would say that winter accessible means more than just being 2 or 3 feet off the ground. If the cache is hidden in the "obvious spot" when you get to a location, then I would consider that winter-friendly even if it means they have to dig through a couple feet of snow to get to it. The same might be true of the cache you found today if there are not that many trees in the area.

Yeah, it was one of two trees, so I could see that. 'winter accessible' is rather subjective, but in general... yeah, I see where you're coming from. Makes sense, anyway.

Peter and Gloria

Yes, the "available in winter" attribute is quite subjective. Most people call it the attribute "winter friendly" but even then everyone doesn't agree on what that means.

When there are some attributes, at least you have the owner's opinion. When you don't agree with the posted attributes, you can either mention it in the log or send an email to the cache owner. Be polite; we don't need anyone else pulling their caches because they got upset by a nasty comment.

Wagonmaker · Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 150 Location: Manitoba

I agree with using the attributes to qualify your cache -- in most of my caches, I've used up the ten spaces alotted for attributes.

However, I don't find that the winter-friendly attribute is much help, because as it's been said, each cacher may have a different opinion of what that may be.
In my opinion, a cache that can be covered in snow is still quite winter friendly. When caching in the winter, I very much expect to dig in snow, that's just the reality of it. Most surfaces or nooks that would support caches can probably also accumulate snow, so being covered is not enough to make a cache unaccessible in winter. If a cache is truly impossible to access due to winter conditions, I think the owner ought to disable it for the winter season (as I have done with one of my caches).

But like I said, the attributes are very useful in helping to give extra hints when out on the trail.

1Queenand4Jokers · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 268 Location: Manitoba

My thoughts on attributes -We often use cache attributes but they ARE actually hints. For example winter-friendly often would indicate (in my opinion) that it is hidden at least slightly off of the ground OR very near a regularly cleared pathway. If one is searching in spring, summer, and fall why should that attribute be listed? If caches were all meant to be easy we'd just litter them every 500 feet or so instead of putting thought and effort into them. Thats what we liked about many of PBD's caches. Small to medium containers hidden in evergreens, winter-friendly, well hidden, and accessible year round. We needed those for winter caching fun. (Though we struck out a few times with those as well).

Then there is the poison ivy thing. I still don't know it's there until I come down with a good case of it. So...should I click it on any that are off pavement? I do get confused by some of the attributes. Like kid friendly. Ahem. Most are more kid friendly than adult friendly unless they are in the middle of a busy intersection. Or does that mean LARGE caches with great swag (RARE)? I think I liked it better when there were NO attributes. And the dog (hmm) so would someone actually take a dog to a cache in the middle of downtown if that icon were clicked? Now I admit clicking "washrooms nearby" is great when caching in a big city and walking a couple of miles. But it is only good for paper caching isn't it? Ii haven't figured out how to GSAK attributes yet but I'm sure there is a way.

When we bulk download caches we never have the attributes at all so most caches we do we have no idea if there is poison ivy/ or kid friendly/ parking/swimming or anything unless it says it in the description. If it has been found recently in winter that might mean it is winter-friendly.

Frankly each cache belongs to the cache owner and if they wish it can be a white micro hidden on the ground with no hints hidden in a 2000 tree forest under 6 feet of snow. The cache owner may have hidden it in a tree in a knothole but if it was tossed by a squirrel just before snowfall who would know? What is winter-friendly one year sure isn't the next!

What we do is try to think like a particular cacher and figure them out and then...we find it - at least our average is probably higher than 9 times out of 10 even when one of us caches alone.

The only reason to put an attribute like winter-friendly would be so that someone who downloads bulk caches and ONLY wants to do winter ones would hit on ours. We do presume if hidden in winter it will be somewhat friendly.

What I really wish is that those who hunt in the winter would create extra trails to confuse muggles. We ALWAYS try to do this so it is less obvious where the winter cache is hidden. But that is the chance you take hiding in winter.

Just our two cents worth and of course that is probably what are opinions are worth! So smile, dress warm and grab a shovel! And of course take time to read other logs cause invariably cachers cannot resist adding hints. Another hint: run to a cache just after others have found it in the winter cause there will be tracks!

junglehair · Joined: 05 Apr 2005 Posts: 372 Location: Winnipeg

1queenand4jokers wrote:

Another hint: run to a cache just after others have found it in the winter cause there will be tracks!

Actually, in the winter, this is what I look for more than anything else. Not so much to be able to follow tracks to a cache, but I look to see if a cache has been found recently. If so, then I assume it is doable in winter.

Kabuthunk · Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 257 Location: Winnipeg

junglehair wrote:

1queenand4jokers wrote:

Another hint: run to a cache just after others have found it in the winter cause there will be tracks!

Actually, in the winter, this is what I look for more than anything else. Not so much to be able to follow tracks to a cache, but I look to see if a cache has been found recently. If so, then I assume it is doable in winter.

Yep, that's what I go off of. Like... I'm still a new cacher... still learning with every outing... still got tons to learn. I haven't been through a winter at all with caching yet, so I'm not entirely sure what to expect. Hence... pretty much all caches at this point are being treated with the aformentioned "Was it found recently? Good, then it's possible to get at the moment". Unfortunately, virtually all caches near me haven't been found in over a month or so :P. Well... except newly placed caches. Any placed after the snowfall I believe would tend to mean it can be found in the snow :P