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TB Cache Criterea?

 
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Prairie Jeepin



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 15
Location: SW Manitoba

PostPosted: Apr 10, 2005 4:42 pm    Post subject: TB Cache Criterea? Reply with quote

So what exactly is the train of thought here in MB about Travel Bug caches?



I am curious to know what everyone's various ideas are on caches that are designed to accept our little (sometimes larger) travelling friends. It is quite obvious they need to be 'secure', but what about other thinking, like....





  • Should they be Large, Med, Small?

  • Should they be in Easier access areas?

  • Should they be close to/in Parks, or at Roadside Turnouts?

  • Should they be specifically designed rather than an afterthought?

  • Should they be specified as TB Friendly?

  • Is there some standard (unwritten) that is adhered to, or does everyone just "wing-it"?


The the current practice(s) on GC.com aside, many of which arent exactly always the most intelligent decisions made by cachers, are things to consider and may be the accepted norms, but in many cases they are afterthoughts and lack cohesion. What do we think about this type of cache here in MB? What would be our standards, expectation and/or norms? That is what I want to pique of your minds today.



I think my two main concerns would be Size and Location. The former being large enough to hold a TY Beanie (or 2), and the latter in a secure loaction that is not too difficult to get to. Personally I would worry about any TB Cache in a city - unless it was in someone's yard being private property with limited and protected access - but that's just me.



Location is my big confrontation. I have been looking for a place to put a Larger Cache with the ability to accept TBs but cannot decide on a location for may reasons. The main ones being that if it is too far off a beaten trail/road/highway it will not do what it is intended to do. Secondly, that if access or "finding" is too easy, it may get muggled and the TBs will be kidnapped. And thirdly, is/will it be secure enough for me to not worry about?



My personal opinion of a TB cache is that it should be along side a main people mover. A route that is used for traveling medium to great distances. A place where the TB actually has a chance at being picked up by someone actually travelling who can really move it somewhere. But at the same time - exceptionally secure. This eliminates a lot of choices for location as well as puts more strain on the hider's process of thought and placement of the cache. This is what I am struggling with to date. I don't want to just place a cache for the sake of placing a cache. It has to be thought out and secure if it is going to accept TBs - IMO.



Anyway, I was just curious as to what others in MB thought about this very thing. It would be nice if we managed to hammer out some sort of acceptable standard that our Province could adhere to so as to better provide a series of safe, secure, TB and User friendly caches.



PJ



-- Edited by Prairie Jeepin at 11:44, 2005-04-10

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polarbeardiggers



Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Winnipeg

PostPosted: Apr 10, 2005 11:21 pm    Post subject: RE: TB Cache Criterea? Reply with quote

i believe you have made a good point ,one in which should be brought to the committee board and discussed,a travel bug cache,that has the larger size container and the volume of visiters,a cache that will get your travel going much quicker,but a cache that will be known to all cachers as a travel bug mover,sure it doesn't stop other caches containing travel bugs,but a cache that is specifically located for other visitors not of manitoba,could get their hands on them,and try to accomplish their missions alot easier than those caches out in the deep woods that sit there for months,that never get touched,once in a blue moon,but as for the travel bug itself and its design,should always remain at the cachers sole descretion,after all they bought the tags,some bugs are made up from kids,their shape ,concept,design or mission should never be dictated by other cachers, if you don't like the bug,you don't touch it,as for placement of bugs to caches,thats why there are cache descriptions,kind of cuts the guess work out of it,i myself had a travel bug stolen,but thanks to a conserned cacher in calgary,tracked it down,and pursuaded the people to keep the bug moving,i got lucky,but i strongly believe that we should have a specific cache listed on the mbgeocaching association for the quick movement of travel bugs,very good point,.

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1Queenand4Jokers



Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 270
Location: Manitoba

PostPosted: Apr 11, 2005 6:03 am    Post subject: RE: TB Cache Criterea? Reply with quote

  • Should they be Large, Med, Small?
    Medium

  • Should they be in Easier access areas?
    Yes

  • Should they be close to/in Parks, or at Roadside Turnouts?
    Yes

  • Should they be specifically designed rather than an afterthought?
    Not sure - I'm creating a simple cache, to be placed in a (I hope) discreet unused area for my own quick drop off. Drive-up is preferable. My own convenience but for others as well. I'd rather test it for a few months and then perhaps if successful change the name to TB Hotel if it seems safe and fairly muggle free. One just never knows if they will be or not. Does anyone have stats as to which caches in Manitoba have had the most TB's travel through them? Is there a way to find out?



  • Should they be specified as TB Friendly?

  • Sure


  • Is there some standard (unwritten) that is adhered to, or does everyone just "wing-it"?


  • So far we use our own discretion. I seldom risk putting tb's in caches I feel are unsafe. We personally create TB's that are small since smaller caches have less risk of getting muggled.



    I don't think one TB hotel is enough in Winnipeg. We are a very sprawling city for example so there should be several, in different city quadrants.



    As far as rural - yes near a major route makes sense. Rural caches are visited much less than urban ones or highway ones. We place caches along the Highways 75 and 16 because we travel them and can maintain the the caches. The number 1 needs some just outside city limits - both ends of city. Highway 23 could use some. Highway 59 is bleak so far. BUT that said most pull-out or roadside stops in Manitoba are not well-treed or with lots of stones or anything that helps to hide stuff. A cache in these places needs to be creative. You almost have to bring along a stone, or a stump, or some other natural looking hollowed out railroad tie or something just to be able to hide something. We tend to be quite pristine and tidy in Manitoba which makes it difficult. If one was the caretaker of these rest areas it would be fun eh? We need to recruit some of these type of people into the game. We thought getting some police officers in the game would be fun and doing a hide on a police station yard daring!



    If only we knew some...



    Very quick movement of bugs means near the Winnipeg Airport I'd think or the downtown business district near hotels. If we could get permission to hide one at the Manitoba Children's Museum grounds or the Concert Hall or something it'd be good. Anybody got connections?   



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    Peter and Gloria



    Joined: 06 Mar 2005
    Posts: 254
    Location: N50° 00.___ W96° 57.___

    PostPosted: Apr 11, 2005 6:21 am    Post subject: RE: TB Cache Criterea? Reply with quote

    My thoughts on TB Motels





    • Difficuly and Terrain should be 1.5 or less. Car to cache distance should probably be less than 500 ft.


    • TB Motel should be at least meduim size although large would be better. A large TB like Cindy(The CinderBlocK) http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=27797 won't fit in very many caches.


    • The Motel should be close to an easy access area on a well-travelled route, such as a Highway Rest Area. It's tougher in the city to place a larger, easy-access TB Motels in a muggle-free area.


    • Although a specificly designed cache might be preferable, a cache like Burnside http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=661f0199-8360-4504-9aa8-
      dfdd09d945f5
       basically meets the criteria. It would be better if it was called Burnside TB Motel.


    • A winter-friendly (and spring-friendly) cache is prefered. If it isn't, bugs can be stuck in it for months.


     



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    Prairie Jeepin



    Joined: 28 Mar 2005
    Posts: 15
    Location: SW Manitoba

    PostPosted: Apr 11, 2005 5:33 pm    Post subject: RE: TB Cache Criterea? Reply with quote

    Some interesting thoughts out there :)



    I wasn't specifically meaning TB Motels/Hotels or that ilk. I was more interested in knowing if there was a certain standard that people considered when designing/placing a generic Cache that was going to contain or be expected to handle TBs. More to the location and security aspects than anything else. My primary concern being...





    quote:


    Originally posted by: polarbeardiggers
    "...get their hands on them,and try to accomplish their missions alot easier than those caches out in the deep woods that sit there for months,that never get touched,once in a blue moon,..."






    I'm just wanting to fish out some ideas or standards here at avoid the above mentioned scenario. There are a lot of caches in existance that contain travel bugs in that exact situation -- which IMO defeats the whole prupose of a TB. Might as well call them Sitting Still Bugs! Go Nowhere Bugs! or, Stranded Bugs!



    I was thinking that it might be advantages for us as a organisation to create a standard for others to follow when considering creating a TB friendly cache. If there was some guidelines that helped to promote their placement in areas where things will actually move. Of course enforcing any such guidelines or getting people to abide by them is another story. As would be controlling where people drop off a bug, but I am not promoting any sort of policing or control here. Only a simple guideline that "suggests" to people creating a TB Cache to carefully consider where they are going to place it, rather than just slapping it down in some bizarre location where any Bug is going to have to camp out for long long while.



    Standards I would endorse would be things like: must be on or very near a major or secondary highway, must be closer to the road/parking, should be easily accessable location but secure area, &c. But maybe I am off on a tangeant here altogether and none of this is needed or worthwhile. Maybe I am actually thinking about TB Hotel/Motels, I don't know, I just see potential trouble with TB type caches being more of a "waiting room" than anything alse and am hoping we as a group could alleviate some of this in our Province. A Provincial Standard perhaps that might spill over into other regions and tidy up the current "lonely" TB problem. High hopes?



    As to the comment of controlling types or sizes of TBs....... no, I would never endorse that. TB Freedom is paramount!



    I like the idea of a survey of TB related Caches in MB just to see what is where, and which are 100% TB oriented vs those which are just a Cache with a TB in it. Perhaps someone good with searches could conduct such a poll/investigation for curiosity's sake.



    PJ



    -- Edited by Prairie Jeepin at 12:35, 2005-04-11

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    1Queenand4Jokers



    Joined: 07 Mar 2005
    Posts: 270
    Location: Manitoba

    PostPosted: Apr 11, 2005 7:46 pm    Post subject: RE: TB Cache Criterea? Reply with quote

    Stranded TB's sometimes get stranded due to their "mission". One of ours has a mission to visit various mountain ranges. So we realize our bug could end up in a seldom-visited mountain range and we don't mind the risk. Another is trying to visit uniquely named caches. So...we try to rescue travel bugs if they are in a cache that hasn't been visited for a while. I think some of the onus on movement of TB's that are stranded is up to the cache owner too. If we create larger caches we take responsibility to maintain that cache - if that means a check-up to care for our caches just before a flood or a snowstorm - so be it. Posting a "help move travel bug" note in the regional forums where the cache is located works well. Just having our TB visit TB hotels wouldn't interest us at all. We enjoy virtually visiting caches via our TB. We've gotten some good ideas for creating new caches from their visits.



    I appreciate this discussion. Thanks for starting it PJ!. I also know that sometimes the ideas of putting a TB in a remote cache is to get people to make that long hike instead of just a quick cache n' dash. Thus bagging "2 in 1". So restricting TB's from travelling to remote areas isn't always good for the game either. Why should urbanites get all the fun? I've watched Peter and Gloria and how they move Tb's strategically even to get people to visit their caches and like it. But again using good old fashioned COMMON SENSE when moving and placing and creating is the highest calling! I know I'm arguing both sides but there are as many ideas in caching as there are cachers.



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    Prairie Jeepin



    Joined: 28 Mar 2005
    Posts: 15
    Location: SW Manitoba

    PostPosted: Apr 12, 2005 6:20 pm    Post subject: RE: RE: TB Cache Criterea? Reply with quote



    quote:










    Originally posted by: 1queenand4jokers
    "Stranded TB's sometimes get stranded due to their "mission". One of ours has a mission to visit various mountain ranges. So we realize our bug could end up in a seldom-visited mountain range and we don't mind the risk. ...



    I also know that sometimes the ideas of putting a TB in a remote cache is to get people to make that long hike instead of just a quick cache n' dash. Thus bagging "2 in 1". ...



    I've watched Peter and Gloria and how they move Tb's strategically even to get people to visit their caches and like it. But again using good old fashioned COMMON SENSE when moving and placing and creating is the highest calling! I know I'm arguing both sides but there are as many ideas in caching as there are cachers."










    You make some interesting points I didn't consider, thanks. I will have to agree with all of the above.



    I'm not really trying or suggestion a restriction of any sort, just attempting to figure out what goes thru the thought process and what things people are considering when they design and place a cache that can accept TBs. Some of these things are coming out in the conversation, as are many other things.



    In the end it is much as you say, the onus is on the bug's current holder. It is up to them to make the decision where it goes next, and that is just the way the ball bounces if their choice is remote.

    Editted for spelling and a bad sentance.

    -- Edited by Prairie Jeepin at 11:03, 2005-04-13

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    junglehair



    Joined: 05 Apr 2005
    Posts: 374
    Location: Winnipeg

    PostPosted: Apr 12, 2005 6:29 pm    Post subject: RE: RE: TB Cache Criterea? Reply with quote

    quote:


    Originally posted by: 1queenand4jokers

    "We thought getting some police officers in the game would be fun and doing a hide on a police station yard daring! "




    One of the cachers I know tried this in Erie, PA.  He asked the police sargeant if he could place a cache near the police station and was granted permission.  Apparently someone reported suspicious activity outside the police station, and the officers were called out to investigate.  They found a metal box, clearly marked geocache, but still decided to take no chances and called in the bomb squad.  This cache was blown to smithereens!



    As for a travelbug hotel, generally they are located near airports or major highways, and are easy to access.  A TB Hotel can be great for moving bugs, but it can also become a prison for some, even if the cache is in an easy to access location.  We have a cache around here, for example, where the owner specifies that you can only take a bug if you are leaving one in it's place so that there are always 10 bugs in the cache.  Some of the less appealing bugs can be stuck in a cache like this forever. 



    I prefer to see a cache start with 3 or 4 bugs, and not have a limit on how many you can take or drop off.  If there are 4 bugs in the cache and you can help them all with their mission, then you should be able to take them all.  The point is just to have a spot where you can make a quick drop/pick up of bugs.



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    Master Instigator



    Joined: 19 Jan 2005
    Posts: 20
    Location: Winnipeg

    PostPosted: Apr 12, 2005 10:13 pm    Post subject: RE: TB Cache Criterea? Reply with quote

    Wow! A lot of heavy duty thought going into such little travelers.  As for me I give it no thought what’s so ever.  I did think of creating a T.B. hotel close to the airport, but then decided against it. 



     



    When I create a cache I put 100% of my thought and concern into the cache itself.  I can see that a lot of time and money is invested into a T.B. but at the same time even more is invested into the cache container. The owner never wants his/her container to be muggled so they place it in a location where they feel it can achieve this. 



     



    I had personally a cache called "the Jukebox" that was muggled that had approximately $200 dollars worth of cd's inside, but that was the risk I took.  I also had one called "Go Fly a Kite" and it had a T.B. called Smokey owned by Junglehair.  I never thought anyone would muggle the cache, but it was.  I also don't think J.H. would have placed the T.B. inside if she felt it was a risk. 



     

    I think it comes down to the cacher who is helping the T.B. to make the decision on if a certain cache they visited would be suitable for the T.B. they have.  Just like the owner of a cache runs an apparent risk of having their cache disappear, the T.B. owner made that same decision when they put the 10 bucks on their card to purchase the dog tag.

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